An interview with the vice-chair of the Karen National Union (KNU)
July 13th, 2021
The KIC asked Padoh Saw Kwe Htoo Win, Vice-Chair of the KNU about the letter issued on July 8th on the temporary suspension of Brig-Gen Saw Ner Dah Mya, Chief of the Karen National Defense Organization (KNDO) and his subordinate Lieutenant Saw Ba Wah by the KNU’s Defense Department.
Q: Can you first explain the temporary suspension of the KNDO’s chief?
A: The KNU abides by the human rights rules. Those responsible for this case have a responsibility to report it to the above. But we know it only when people post the case on social media. After that, we have to investigate the situation. It is found that pictures and videos were posted by the responsible persons on social media since before we questioned them. Such a case should not be uploaded on social media. Officials have a duty to report the case to the above in accordance with the rules and laws of the organization after making an investigation into it. The investigation work is done according to the duty and authority assigned by the organization. The members of the standing committee and the central executive committee (CEC) are elected by the congress while the military commanders and defense leaders are chosen by the standing committee and the CEC. The central (headquarters) summoned the commander of the KNDO about the case. But he himself did not come to the headquarters. The KNU made such a decision as he failed to deny the summon. He will remain as his former rank Brig-Gen. But the KNU will temporarily suspend his duty during the investigation period. will report the report to the one who has jurisdiction based on the investigation result. Some people compare the killings by the military council’s troops to this case. It is just the army’s undertaking. Such cases are made public. Likewise, our organization has already had its own rules and regulations, battlefield codes of conduct and treatment of war victims. I don’t exactly know the cause. The KNU has formed an investigation team and assigned duties to the team to conduct field investigations. It is not because of being a person. We have to do it according to the organization’s procedures.
Q: Can you explain the issuance of the order dated July 8th?
A: As I mentioned earlier, there are spreads of information about it. The KNU on its part issued a statement about the killings of members from the enemy side. We are to abide by the ethics for the detained enemy members as we have the rules and laws even in the battlefield. Our organization will not be like an organization if all members have authority to kill. Our organization has procedures and rules on how to make decisions for the detainees. The defense department and the military headquarters are tasked with investigating the case. As far as I understand, the head of the defense department summoned Brig-Gen Ner Dah Mya and his subordinate Lieutenant Saw Ba Wah to the headquarters. Due to difficult road access, they planned to meet in Thailand. But they did not come to the designated place. That’s why the officials reported the case to the CEC. The CEC has assigned duty to the chief of the KNDO. It is not the killing of one or two persons. The CEC temporarily suspended his duty to investigate the case as this is not the systematic decision on the lives of many people. This investigation team is formed by the parent organization in accord with its rules and regulations.
Q: Brig-Gen Saw Nel Dar Mya has officially denied the temporary suspension. How will the KNU (headquarters) deal with it?
A: If a member of the organization opposes the organization’s decision, it amounts to opposing his organization. Either armed group or organization already has the Standard Operating Procedures (SOP). Failing to abide by it means that he opposes his organizations and the defense department’s undertaking assigned by the CEC. Our organization is to do work according to the organizational pattern. Some people said without knowing the reason, that the killing of the enemy is correct. But it is not correct. The KNU is still recognized as a revolutionary organization as it has its own rules and regulations. So, we have to do it according to the rules and regulations. We are not doing it based on personal feelings. Failing to abide by it is just his desire. The KNU will not recognize him as a member if he is unable to follow it.
Q: How did the KNU (headquarters) contact him after the issuance of this order?
A: As he is appointed by the Defense Department, the department tried to contact him. But the department was unable to contact him. We don’t exactly know where he is. Some people said he is present somewhere. Till now, we can contact officials from the lower level. The military headquarters and the defense department have been assigned to make direct contact with him. In fact, both two armed organizations—the Karen National Liberation Army (KNLA) and the KNDO— are under the defense department. Duty assignment, suspension and removal depend on the defense department’s decision. We can contact the deputy commander of the KNDO and other officials only.
Q: Did the KNU have examples of splits inside the organization when similar problems arise? How will the KNU (Headquarters) plan to avoid a similar event?
A: I have not thought about such a case. There should be no such case among leaders of our organization. He is the most responsible person for the case as he has the highest duty. Whether he gave the order or not depends only on interrogation and investigation. We have a duty to interrogate him whether it should be done or not, even if he did it as it should be done. We will release it after investigation. We don’t want such a split. But it will depend on individuals. For instance, it depends on the attitude towards the organization. Nobody want the split. It is very difficult to get reunion after a split. There are many reasons of the splits, in term of different political view and personal secession. All members need to abide by the rules and regulations of the organizations unitedly in order to avoid the split.
Q: Some Karen people from home and abroad view that the issuance of a statement by the KNU’s defense department is wrong. Some people say that this is due to the enemy’s pressure. May I know your view on it?
A: This has nothing to do with the enemy’s request. The KNU already has a duty to do it according to its rules and regulations. Our purpose is to investigate the root cause of the case. For instance, let’s say that a person commits wrongdoings. It may be theft and murder. The police are to take action against him or her and send them to the court. Then, the court has to make a decision. This is not the case in which the lower organization takes action. This is not the statement. It has to be done according to the accountability of the organization. Some people have a mistaken view that the KNU had to do it according to the enemy’s pressure. We have to do it according to our rules and regulations. The KNU has already had the procedures for the treatment of war victims. This is not the life of one or two persons. We cannot compare this case to the acts done by the army. We have to do it in accordance with the rules and regulations of the organization and reveal our dignity. This order is not the statement letter. You will know who started spreading this letter outside if you study it. This is not the enemy’s request. Although officials no need to report what they will do to the above, they will have to submit their default. For instance, fighting is taking place in all brigades almost every day. The brigades release information about casualties. We have to make an investigation into the case from the beginning as there is no report on the decision to kill the enemy by officials.
Q: Is there the similar case before? How did the KNU solve and decide it? What are the impacts caused by the decision?
A: We had similar cases. But the patterns are different. There were a lot of cases pertaining to the enforcement of rules and regulations inside the organization, rule of law in the region and battlefields. For instance, our members beat and killed around 11 smugglers in Myeik-Dawei District. We had to arrest and send them to the central court for the judicial decision. Members of the organization are the people. So, action will be taken against those who commit the wrongdoing against the public. Soldiers who commit the wrongdoing shall face action according to the military rules. It is just the investigation stage but not the stage of how to take action. We will investigate the case if the victims are not soldiers. We will have to submit the report to the officials after investigating whether the victims are from the enemy or not. We have a lot of experiences. But the different point depends only on how high the rank is and to what extent the rules and regulations are followed.
Q: The last question is what does the KNU want to give a message to the people about criticism as the military coup has raised the concerns among the people, and such a case emerges among the Karen group.
A: What I want to say is the army’s brutal killings of the people cannot be compared to it. The reason why the KNU stands as an armed organization till now is due to its process, rules and regulations. The KNU abides by the rules and regulations which protect the rights of ethics and has its own judiciary system. The KNU will take any acts which oppose inside the organization, about organization. The public view is just view and attitude. All officials in the organizations are to abide by the rules and regulations. There will be criticism that there is no action taken against rule breakers. Some cases are not made public. The people will view the acts done by a member as the acts done by the entire organization. We are doing it with accountability and responsibility based on the rules and regulations of the organization, but not on the emotions and feelings.
Sent by the KIC.
